For governors, three's company

Sunday, January 21, 2007

Former Gov. Jim Florio was visiting the law offices of Carella-Byrne when The Star-Ledger's scheduled teleconference between former New Jersey Govs. Brendan T. Byrne and Tom Kean took place last week, so he was invited to join the conversation.


Q: Assuming there's always some back-and-forth before any program reaches its final form, can Gov. Jon Corzine expect the Legislature eventually to come together on his proposal to reduce property taxes?

BYRNE: I had a huge majority of Democrats in the Legislature in '74, and it took me two and a half years to get something done.

KEAN: Two and a half years and the Supreme Court.

FLORIO: I'm impressed with the Legislature's diligence on this. They formed committees, worked hard and came up with some fairly specific measures. Those of us who have dealt with them in the past were relatively surprised at their commitment and involvement. Usually, these things are driven by governors and then the Legislature comes along. In this case, the Legislature has led the way by putting a lot of energy into fulfilling its responsibilities.

KEAN: I'm seeing a lot of proposals and not much coming together. The question is whether the Legislature and governor can get together on anything that's real and permanent in terms of property tax relief -- not something that lasts a year or two and then goes away. So some kind of cap is necessary. The Democrats are really on the hook because they've promised this over and over again. They promised it last year, and it didn't get done. And now an election is approaching.

BYRNE: The basic question still is where you get the money to do what you promised to do, and so far there isn't a clear path to that money source.


Q: Is a tax cap a viable part of a property-tax package, or does that just pass along the hard decisions to municipal government?

BYRNE: Caps have never really worked in New Jersey -- or virtually anywhere else. So I'm not sanguine about caps.

KEAN: I disagree. A cap is essential if property-tax reform is to be permanent. But I don't think it can be a hard 4 percent, because that doesn't take inflation into account. Establishing a cap that is, say, two points above inflation would be more realistic.

FLORIO: A cap is effective to achieve what you're trying to do, but it has to recognize needs at the local level, where you're going to have cost increases for police, fire departments and so forth. Otherwise there will be more pressure on the state to finance local needs. If you shift off local regressive property taxes and over to progressive taxes at the state level, that certainly would be much more fair. Tax reform that is oblivious to local needs is not a viable long-term answer.

BYRNE: Typically, every cap has exceptions for this, that and the other, however, and we have to admit that exceptions have watered down caps to the point that they're almost meaningless.

KEAN: You can't allow the exceptions. You've got to recognize the fact that inflation is now at 2 1/2 percent, and people's salaries are going up 3 to 4 percent, but spending can't continue to go up three to four times as much as people's salaries. So you have to find some way to hold government to a level that reflects people's income -- what they can afford.

FLORIO: The other option is Governor Corzine's initiative to generate economic growth at the state level, to generate jobs and revenues so you have an alternative.

KEAN: I'm all for that, but it's not going to happen without getting spending and taxes under control. It all has to come together.


Q: A noticeable number of Republicans in the state have said they're not running for re-election. Does this signal a shift in the New Jersey Republican Party, which traditionally has been more moderate than some of the national party?

KEAN: I don't think it's a shift. What I think it says is that they are tired of serving in the minority. Had Republicans taken control, I suspect a lot of them wouldn't be leaving.

BYRNE: I don't think that's it, because most of them are in safe Republican districts. Second, some declared before the election that they weren't going to run again. So this is a maturation of the process.

KEAN: Having served in both majority and minority Legislatures, I can tell you the minority isn't much fun.

BYRNE: But you were good in both, Tom.

FLORIO: Some Republicans tell me there's a growing tension within the Republican Party in New Jersey, which has put candidates under stress, trying to reconcile their personal inclinations with what the national party is standing for. So there seems to be a sense of disarray that makes people uncomfortable. Democrats have gone through this in the past. The Republican Party is in this situation now with a vengeance, and probably is concerned about 2008 and a national dialogue that will highlight differences between New Jersey and national Republicans.

KEAN: Good point -- and interesting, because both parties will change toward the philosophy of their nominees. So it will be interesting to see who is nominated and how that nomination affects the local party.


Q: Sen. Frank Lautenberg has all but closed a deal in Congress wherein a lot more money would go to Amtrak and New Jersey will have a say in the process. Will it be a positive step for us to have a stronger voice in running Amtrak, given that New Jersey Transit uses many of its lines?

BYRNE: Lautenberg has been a congressional leader in transportation. Our transfer station has been named after him, and deservedly so. We should count our blessings to have him as a spokesman for us.

FLORIO: His position is a very sensible approach, focusing on key transportation corridors. This is good, because there are some proposals coming out of Washington that would break up Amtrak. When I was in Congress, there was a specific proposal to break up Amtrak, but you couldn't have a national system if you didn't preserve the requirement that gave Amtrak precedence over freight lines. Lautenberg is setting a very good, smart course, saying the system must be preserved, but we want more involvement from the state in monitoring traffic.

KEAN: I agree, he has been very vigilant, and protective of commuters. All I can say is, "Keep it up, Senator."

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